Planning a smoking area?

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Satyn
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Post by Satyn »

this has been entertaining but its not cool anymore.

Gandelf i want you to stop using your mobile phone as of now please cos you are causing me to get cancer. Oh and no more deo's or perfume either.

exactly ... rediculous.
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Elrandhir
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Post by Elrandhir »

Sharkith wrote:Not according to the rates published here:

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/incidence/risk/?a=5441

It is considerably less than your both claiming. A 25% increase is not that significant or meaningful to be honest.
:|

I don't really Claim anythng, because I dont know, but from how reality looks It sounded probably being as high as Haarewin said.

25% increase not significant, that sounds pretty stupid tbh ;D
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Post by Elrandhir »

Satyn wrote:this has been entertaining but its not cool anymore.

Gandelf i want you to stop using your mobile phone as of now please cos you are causing me to get cancer. Oh and no more deo's or perfume either.

exactly ... rediculous.

And?

Why add another factor to getting the illness, but it's not like smoking only causes Cancer.

People can smoke if they want, but when someone actually seem to defend it, thats when it gets annoying tbh.

And well there isent anything cool about smoking, so I guess thats why the Thread aint either, something that cause people bad illnesses shouldent be cool neways, I can't see anything wrong in discussing it like this, in an mature way.
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no more posting for me, forums only entertaining when not posting serious debates. :P

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Post by Sharkith »

[quote="Elrandhir"]
25% increase not significant, that sounds pretty stupid tbh ]

thats the point though risk figures like this lack meaning and a 25% increase on 1% is really not meaningful. You might think that stupid but to be frank I don't think it is and research on risk indicates most people would agree with me.

If you want to get into risk figures pretty much all of them don't translate well into meaning.

Take a few more examples:-
  • if you are a dentist and you treat someone with Hepatitis 'B' and you accidentally innoculate your finger after giving local anesthetic the risk of getting hepatits 'B' is 30%.
  • if you are a dentist and you treat someone with HIV and you accidentally innoculate your finger after giving local anesthetic the risk of getting HIV is is 0.03%
Which would you prefer
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Post by Elrandhir »

Sharkith wrote:thats the point though risk figures like this lack meaning and a 25% increase on 1% is really not meaningful. You might think that stupid but to be frank I don't think it is and research on risk indicates most people would agree with me.

If you want to get into risk figures pretty much all of them don't translate well into meaning.

Take a few more examples:-
  • if you are a dentist and you treat someone with Hepatitis 'B' and you accidentally innoculate your finger after giving local anesthetic the risk of getting hepatits 'B' is 30%.
  • if you are a dentist and you treat someone with HIV and you accidentally innoculate your finger after giving local anesthetic the risk of getting HIV is is 0.03%
Which would you prefer

Sorry but I don't see how this has anything to do with Smokeing, as I have said earlier, why compare it to something else all the time, that is what gets annoing, it sounds like everyone wants something else to blame makeing Smokeing seems more valid or something like that.

Don't, because to smokeing can only be one thing, and thats stupid, nothing else, there is no defending it in any way.

I use snuff, and even if it aint as bad as Smokeing, it's still a very stupid thing to do, hopefully Il be able to stop doing so soon.
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Post by Gandelf »

Satyn wrote:this has been entertaining but its not cool anymore.

Gandelf i want you to stop using your mobile phone as of now please cos you are causing me to get cancer. Oh and no more deo's or perfume either.

exactly ... rediculous.

I don't use a mobile phone. I keep a cheap one in my glove compartment just for emergencies if I break down. But I've only used it once. I hate mobile phones, because they make you "available". Why do we suddenly need them? We managed without them before! I even remember when my family didn't even have a house phone and we had to use a phone box at the top of the street. Computer technology is both a blessing and a curse. When I weigh my life thus far, I would have to conclude that I was at my happiest without computer technology.
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I sometimes think that I just want to get back to basics. Do the things that made me happy in the 70s. Forget about micro-chip technology, things that are digital and get back to analogue.

*dreams* ...45 records on an old record player, Chopper Bikes, watching Scooby Doo, take-aways were Fish 'n' Chips. Running around on grass, flying a kite, taking the dog for a long walk in the countryside, catching tadpoles, playing a guitar, going to the local sweet shop and buying Black Jack and Fruit Salad sweets, walking everywhere. Back to basics.

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Post by Gandelf »

Elrandhir wrote:Sorry but I don't see how this has anything to do with Smokeing, as I have said earlier, why compare it to something else all the time, that is what gets annoing, it sounds like everyone wants something else to blame makeing Smokeing seems more valid or something like that.

Elrandhir is absolutely correct. Some forum users are deliberately trying to confuse things by quoting examples that are not specifically to do with the passive smoking debate. So let's get back on track:-

No-one seems to challenge the simple point that I keep making. Forget about health risks associated with passive smoking. What right do smokers have to make non-smokers' clothing reek of tobacco smoke? If I went up to someone and threw bad smelling chemicals on their clothes, they could take legal action and sue me. So what's the diffence between that and smokers smoking in a public place, where non-smokers are present (and are entitled to be) and making their clothes stink of stale tobacco smoke?

But, I'm not too concerned about arguing anyway, because as I've said, the smoking ban still comes into force in public places on 1st july. It's all academic now. I'm happy.

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Post by Sharkith »

Elrandhir wrote:Sorry but I don't see how this has anything to do with Smokeing, as I have said earlier, why compare it to something else all the time, that is what gets annoing, it sounds like everyone wants something else to blame makeing Smokeing seems more valid or something like that.

Don't, because to smokeing can only be one thing, and thats stupid, nothing else, there is no defending it in any way.

I use snuff, and even if it aint as bad as Smokeing, it's still a very stupid thing to do, hopefully Il be able to stop doing so soon.
because when people started talking about it in this thread (Gandelf and others) they brought up the notion of risk and cause. If you invoke such abstract concept be prepared to discuss the issue along those lines otherwise don't talk about them. These guys started it now when people suddenly disagree and the discussion gets onto grounds they are uncomfortable with they ask us to shut up. So stop complaining at us for doing that.

If you don't want to discuss risk and cause don't use those terms or at the very least don't insist on your right to use them and bar anyone else from discussing them which is what Gandy wants to do from what I can see. At least Gandelf has managed to drop all the insuinations he used at the outset and is now talking about what it is that really bothers him - it stinks and he doesn't like it. Which is basically where the argument belongs.

If you check my first post out you will see that I still feel that is exactly where the discussion belongs.
Gandelf wrote: Elrandhir is absolutely correct. Some forum users are deliberately trying to confuse things by quoting examples that are not specifically to do with the passive smoking debate. So let's get back on track:-

No-one seems to challenge the simple point that I keep making. Forget about health risks associated with passive smoking. What right do smokers have to make non-smokers' clothing reek of tobacco smoke? If I went up to someone and threw bad smelling chemicals on their clothes, they could take legal action and sue me. So what's the diffence between that and smokers smoking in a public place, where non-smokers are present (and are entitled to be) and making their clothes stink of stale tobacco smoke?

But, I'm not too concerned about arguing anyway, because as I've said, the smoking ban still comes into force in public places on 1st july. It's all academic now. I'm happy.
Ok Gandy we can drop the risk debate now that you can agree it gets you nowhere. I will remind you that you were the one to bring it up on the first page so excuse us for responding to your points. I agree the discussion doesn't get us very far although risk is an interesting subject in its own right. Just remember you brought this up and we responded. If you find that annoying then stop blaming us.

Now to your question of course there isn't any right to go out and make someone's clothes smell of smoke and in many ways a lot of smokers should be ashamed for the way they have behaved. When it comes to pollution though Gandelf I am sure as a good Christian you will be well aware of Mathew 7:5:

"first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

I think the bible is clear where Christian ethics ought to lie on this one.
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Satyn
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Post by Satyn »

I hate being generalised, being put in a box as one of the many smokers that make ppl's clothes stink, that blow smoke in other ppl's faces etc etc etc.
Cos there are so many of us smokers that dont do that. I smoke outside, wherever i go even if i'm in a smoking area. I agree that you can be angry at the ppl that do behave selfish but dont start generalising.
I brought up the mobile phone thing cos its as silly as the smoking thing. Ofcourse the mobiles dont stink but it 'can' be a risk to get cancer altho there havent been as much research to it than there is about smoking and passive smoking.
So please stop generalising and appreciate the smokers that do care about other non smokers and do everything they possibly can to protect you from their smoke.
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