Jesus Camp Trailer

[Sharkith]

Well they forced their views on you sending you to jesus camp or whatever

not particularly they respect that I was given every opportunity to look into it and that I no longer follow the views. As far as they are concerned they did their job and the rest is between me and God. For them when they face God they can do it with a clean conscience.

So whats so bad about that?

[Xest]

Well I can't exactly comment on your case but the point is you were given the opportunity as you say to look into christianity, were you also given the opportunity to look into other religions or perhaps the evidence against any religion? Whilst you had the mental capacity to question what you were shown, many wouldn't and it's that abuse of childrens naivety that's rather unfair so in that respect I'd say what your parents did wasn't particularly fair unless they did also give you equal opportunity to look into the alternatives.

My parents never fed me any of it which meant I was able to form my own opinion without any bias one way or the other.

[Heta]

Heta,

my parents are very 'sane' and care deeply about the world and those in it. I might not have the faith they do but I admire and respect their sincerity. They would not force their views on you or anyone else.

Now can I ask why you feel the need to call them 'insane'?

I see a kind of violence in your statement.

Sharkith

could someone point out the violence for me please?

If you read the thread you might have noticed I do consider people believing in a "god" to have some form of delusion/insanity. Cause in my opinion it is insane to believe that something like a god could exist.

[Sharkith]

could someone point out the violence for me please?

If you read the thread you might have noticed I do consider people believing in a "god" to have some form of delusion/insanity. Cause in my opinion it is insane to believe that something like a god could exist.

Heta,

your welcome to your opinion but to state it in the way you did is a kind of violence and that is of course in my opinion. You said:

I am happy I had sane parents that never sent me to some damn Jesus camp, if that would have happend I probably would have hatet them for the rest of my life.

The use of the term 'damn' beside 'Jesus' or associated with Jesus would to some be very offensive. Like I said your welcome to your opinion. It didn't offend me but some would take that as provocative hence my statement 'a kind of violence' (emphasis on the 'kind')

I am not particularly interested in reading 35 pages to get what you have summarised in one sentence. Your opinion isn't something I share and to be frank I don't understand why you even bother forming such strong opinions on the subject.

As for Xest:

Well I can't exactly comment on your case but the point is you were given the opportunity as you say to look into christianity, were you also given the opportunity to look into other religions or perhaps the evidence against any religion? Whilst you had the mental capacity to question what you were shown, many wouldn't and it's that abuse of childrens naivety that's rather unfair so in that respect I'd say what your parents did wasn't particularly fair unless they did also give you equal opportunity to look into the alternatives.

My parents never fed me any of it which meant I was able to form my own opinion without any bias one way or the other.

Why would they give me the opportunity to look into any other religion? They were my parents doing what they believed to be the right thing. Why should they do something that was against their fundamental view of the world? One's culture and identity is not something that is easily surrendered to a neo liberal idea of 'equal opportunity'.

What amazes me is that your so quick to judge how people bring up their children and not once would they question what you would do with yours. They might not agree with your way of doing it but they would never come here and force their opinion on you. Not only this but your claim to not having a bias when you so obviously display your bias in this thread seems slightly disingenuous to me.

[Quinlan]

disingenuous

hmm

http://www.dictionary.com

lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere: Her excuse was rather disingenuous.

Aaaaa now it makes sense. Such big words on a friday

Anways Shark Xest is still young. He is 24 as he pointed out. What does he know about kids besides himself

Him, Heta and myself are strongly opposed and maybe even appaled by religion. It will always collide with people who have some form of believe. I tried having a discussion in bar now and then with some people who are strong believers. I gave up on the subject cause it is impossible to convince them and it is impossible for them to convince me. If they are happy with and not fundementalists it is fine. Just let me be

[Xest]

Not only this but your claim to not having a bias when you so obviously display your bias in this thread seems slightly disingenuous to me.

Er, I said I was brought up without any bias, that doesn't mean I don't have a bias now that I've formed my opinions... I am very anti-religion because again, there's no evidence for it and there's no logical or sensible reason to beleive in it if you look at the different choices of beleif objectively as well as the evidence for the truth behind each beleif.

They might not agree with your way of doing it but they would never come here and force their opinion on you.

Really? I seem to remember a thread about Steve Irwin where plenty of people were judging how kids should be brought up, I also see plenty of cases here where Gandelf feels people should become Christian, what makes you think he doesn't feel the same about people's children? I guess you also feel we shouldn't complain about say, pallestinian parents bringing up their children to go out and blow up innocent civilians either, that's clearly okay if that's what they want to do and we shouldn't question it following your logic.

[Sharkith]

Er, I said I was brought up without any bias, that doesn't mean I don't have a bias now that I've formed my opinions... I am very anti-religion because again, there's no evidence for it and there's no logical or sensible reason to beleive in it if you look at the different choices of beleif objectively as well as the evidence for the truth behind each beleif..

I am sorry but I hope you can excuse me but the statment 'brought up without any bias' is not very 'logical'. I find it difficult to follow and would prefer not to put words into your mouth even though you rush to do the opposite to me. Can you clarify what you mean by 'without any bias'?

Like I said above your welcome to your opinions but your reading so much into the 'Jesus' camp trailer that really isn't there. These things are no big deal. They have been going on for eons. Why they have suddenly become an issue beats the shit out of me. Like I said I don't get why your so aggressive over the whole thing.

Really? I seem to remember a thread about Steve Irwin where plenty of people were judging how kids should be brought up, I also see plenty of cases here where Gandelf feels people should become Christian, what makes you think he doesn't feel the same about people's children? I guess you also feel we shouldn't complain about say, pallestinian parents bringing up their children to go out and blow up innocent civilians either, that's clearly okay if that's what they want to do and we shouldn't question it following your logic.

your funny. You always put people into boxes. I watch you do this a lot on here building little logical cages for them so you can deride them and laugh at them. I find that a little sad to be honest.

I was referring to my parents who would not pass a judgement on you or your parents or anyone else for that matter on how they bring up their children. They would cite the following as the rule they would use to justify not commenting on you or your parents: "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" (Matt. 7:3)

I think they would very humbly avoid telling others what to do and worry more about what they were doing.

But hey - Xest you go ahead and colonise the world in your image of scientific truth and logic. I am sure that since its all objective that it will all make the world a better place.... I wish you luck mate.

I find the people I know who have faith and a direct concern with 'their' God infinitely less dangerous to the world than those who think they have the truth.

[Xest]

Can you clarify what you mean by 'without any bias'?

I have - I wasn't fed anything about any beleif other than that that was forced upon me in school, my parents didn't hand me the bible and say read this, they didn't make me go to church or anything like that, they encouraged me to learn about what I wanted to learn about and make decisions on things after looking at both sides of the story, not by trying to influence my thought patterns with one idea or the other.

These things are no big deal. They have been going on for eons. Why they have suddenly become an issue beats the shit out of me.

They haven't just become an issue, they've always been an issue only that someone decided to start a discussion on it here. It's like saying why discuss anything that's been around for a while - because it's interesting trying to get a different perspective perhaps? Only unfortunately this time we've had no real alternative perspective, mostly just crap and defensive questions instead of answers from Gandelf. People like Kallima have offered some useful insight however at least.

As for the rest of your post there seems little point responding when you're just whining as usual and also feel the need to try and randomly insult me over it, despite my point being identical to many others.

[Selenia]

I do applaud Sharkith and Gandelf for standing up for their faith, especially in the face of so much adversity that seems to have been present, particularly in this thread. Faith is a very personal thing that is different and individual to all of us and although I'm personally an atheist I do stand up for their right to believe in a deity.

Sometimes it is all to easy to believe in nothing than to believe in something. As I stated before, not many people though die Atheists

[Sharkith]

I have - I wasn't fed anything about any beleif other than that that was forced upon me in school, my parents didn't hand me the bible and say read this, they didn't make me go to church or anything like that, they encouraged me to learn about what I wanted to learn about and make decisions on things after looking at both sides of the story, not by trying to influence my thought patterns with one idea or the other.

Ahh I see I understand that better. Fair enough. I was brought up within a tradition but allowed to find my own path even if that involved stepping outside of it in the end. I see in that remarkable tolerance which kind of doesn't square very well with the image you guys are painting of people who have faith.

If your serious about debating this issue wouldn't it be easier to expose the two sides of the debate properly without making the emotive statements you make?

I see this debate as a religion versus science thing. Surely it would make more sense to identify logically the threats you see in religion and see if the same statements could not also be made about scientific rationality.

OK so religion has killed millions - mostly true

Does the same statement hold for science? I think it does.

Or should we refine the statements before continuing?

What other arguments are there here? I found most of it too disjointed to follow its why I stopped reading to be honest.