Jesus Camp Trailer

[Sharkith]

Mmm how I understood it was that the evolution theory was way before Darwins time, wasn't darwin just famous for the theory of natural selection which fitted in with the already well known and proven evolution theory?

aye something like that and of course there was the controversy between Darwin and Watson, one followed a functionalist line whereas the other led us towards phenotypic selection. To be frank there are already theories out there that supersede Darwin.

Strictly speaking natural selection is flawed because there is always behind the selection a form of intelligence - strictly speaking Darwin's 'theory' is just another creationist myth. This is kind of why I find most of these discussions a bit stupid since I don't see a lot of difference between faith in God and faith in intelligent selection behind Darwin's ideas....

[Luz]

yknow you could say that about the politicians.

I dont think anyone is doubting the fact that there are alot of bad eggs in ALL religious camps but their doctrine is usually for the best.

Yes politics are full of the same greedy kind of people. That dont make either of them right.

What the "religios camps" does is provide the opertunity to become very powerfull and rich with hardly any effort.
Then provide cover for theese assholes when stuff comes out because childabusing priests makes the whole religion/church look bad so they all try to cover up for them.

Same goes in politics when someone mess up really bad they all try to cover up for eachother no matter how bad the crime.

Sadly you cant take away politics or the world would become a mess. However you could stop building religious buildings such as churches and stop paying them money.

[Lieva]

but without em phil collins (or was it genisis?) wouldnt have been able to write that good song

thing is
like ive said previously
its not black/white kinda thing

There are bad as well as good in every aspect of life
religion as well

Unfortunatly the bad get better press coverage

[Gandelf]

It's easier to point the finger at groups of people who can be clearly identified, e.g. "Christian", "Muslim", "Jewish", "Gay" or whatever. But it's hard to label the general public who don't fit into any category. Because of this there is possibly a tendency for the general uncategorised public to be left out of such arguments.

I would personally guess that the general public are probably more numerous than those who are "categorised". If this is the case, then one would expect the general public to have more criminals and social deviants in their midst than any other categorised group of people.

That's a guess though. I don't have any evidence.

[Luz]

I am reading the Bible now,found an online version.

Sofar I am 1/3 thru Genesis books and I've had a few laughs.. if it is Gods words he isnt very good with them I have to say.

Also sofar I havent seen any sort of evidence that he is allmighty and allknowing, maybe that comes later? Guess time will tell...

I will make my way thru this.. so I can better understand (I HOPE) christians.. unfortunatly sofar I only feel more bad for them

[Sharkith]

Also sofar I havent seen any sort of evidence that he is allmighty and allknowing, maybe that comes later? Guess time will tell...

all your reading is an account of the relationship between a group of people and their God - I doubt that your going to find some sort of impeccible text where it was all rosy and dandy. All relationships are full of flaws so of course its a book full of conflict and failure. I doubt you should attribute that to God though.

[Kallima]

I am reading the Bible now,found an online version.

Sofar I am 1/3 thru Genesis books and I've had a few laughs.. if it is Gods words he isnt very good with them I have to say.

Also sofar I havent seen any sort of evidence that he is allmighty and allknowing, maybe that comes later? Guess time will tell...

I will make my way thru this.. so I can better understand (I HOPE) christians.. unfortunatly sofar I only feel more bad for them

I think you will get bogged down fairly quickly. Of the old testament I prefer Exodus which I find quite entertaining, since if I was God leading that battlegroup I'd really need a night at the pub to recover. Actually, the bit that amuses me is where God calls Moses to be leader of the Israelites, and Moses keeps saying he really isn't very good at this sort of thing and he is a poor speaker and maybe someone else would be a lot better. God gets him performing miracles, but he still doesn't want the job. In the end God has to do a deal where he tells Moses what to do, Moses tells his brother Aaron, and Aaron tells the people of Israel. Even after that Moses keeps pointing out he isn't good at public speaking. I have a certain fellow feeling for Moses here, the guy is clearly shy like me.

[Luz]

Gen 10:5 states the people left to different ends of the world. Speaking different languages.

Then Gen 11:1 (just like the next page?) they all speak one same language again?

Then WTF is up with this :
Gen 11:6 The LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they all have (G)the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them.

Gen 11:7 "Come, (H)let Us go down and there (I)confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech."

Hu? What? Why?

[Sharkith]

Gen 10:5 states the people left to different ends of the world. Speaking different languages.

Then Gen 11:1 (just like the next page?) they all speak one same language again?

Then WTF is up with this :
Gen 11:6 The LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they all have (G)the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them.

Gen 11:7 "Come, (H)let Us go down and there (I)confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech."

Hu? What? Why?

ahh the old tower of Baal - I referred to that earlier in the thread! Basically men where becoming so powerful God decided to go down and remove their universal translator (kind of reverse bable fish engineering).

You can imagine how funny that party was when they suddenly all started to speak different languages. Now the key here is what is going on?

Is it the factual generation of new languages (I doubt it). Or a story with a moral in it something to do with men trying to overcome God and replace him along with the resulting consequences?

Probably a mixture of both but the latter moral is more important.

Kallima's account of poor old Moses is spot on - that poor bloke really needed a lesson in corporate assertiveness. I could imagine a modern day assertivness trainer sorting God out on that one.

[Luz]

As I keep reading God seems plain stupid.

He's this omnipotent creature allknowing and wise but he f-cks up time after time.

The LORD planted a garden to the east... east of what may I ask?! Anyways...

First of he created Adam. But he failed to realize he needed a woman?? (clever move omnipotent one)
Then he makes Eve, great! (contriary to what people believe, men and woman have exactly the same numbers of ribs, I asked a nurse).

He also created a speaking serpent before he made man and woman, who he made sneaky and "more crafty" then any other animal, who made Eve snatch the apple. Why would God put that tree there that he didnt want them to eat from?? Does this snake represent Satan? If so why did God create Satan???

He then promtly smites the serpent in the vengefull ways God seems to like so much, forcing it to eat dirt forever, but ofc we all know serpents eat mice and insects, oh well.

He also walks around in Eden yelling "where are you" for Adam, which seems strange thing to do when you know everything. He also asks what they dont, which he should already know.